Those of you with the 6R75 or 6R80 (Ford’s newer 6-speed auto transmission found in 2007+ Expedition and 2009+ F150) may have been slightly alarmed when you popped the hood for the first time and can’t find a transmission dip stick. A few Google searches may also leave you baffled and ready to get rid of your vehicle because of all the misinformation. Unfortunately, there’s a lot of it, too much, imo.
I bought a 2007 Expedition back in April and found it amusing that I couldn’t check my transmission fluid. It’s one of the ‘regular’ things you should always do, I still check my oil at almost every fuel-up, that’s pretty much just how I was raised. I pull a trailer from time to time, so not having something I can put my own eyes on worried me. I did some Googling and was met with such phrases as “sealed system”, “dealer only service”, but the gold medal winner wrote it was a ‘throw away transmission, just use it til it breaks and get another’. Seriously? How ignorant can one be? The manual states something along the lines of fluid change at 30k miles if you’re pulling a trailer 100% of the time, and was vague otherwise (or I simply ADD’d over it). My friend Google gave me a wide range of 100k to 150k miles.
I decided to do what I should have done before going to Google, and that was simply get personal with my vehicle.
Hey look! What is that thing right where you’d expect a dip stick tube to be (passenger side, above right-front corner of the pan)? I decided to get my 19mm wrench out to see what’s in there.
Came out really easily and look what I found, a DIP STICK!
Now that we’ve found the dip stick, all the same rules apply:
- Must be at operating temperature
- Must be idling in park
- Must on flat level ground
Now that’s 100% normal, except now the dipstick is mere inches from the catalytic converter, which will be quite hot, as well as the nut holding the dipstick in.
I recommend some Mechanix-type heat-resistant gloves for the next few steps.
Your vehicle should be idling at operating temperature in park on level ground, and the dipstick cap/nut & dipstick removed:
Clean the plastic dipstick as you normally would any dipstick. It has a lip that will keep it from falling all the way in, so insert it til it stops:
Then simply pull it out and check your fluid level:
Now, I obviously am made of steel, since I was able to have my hand up against the catalytic converter and not be burned. Any lesser (wo)men should make sure they’re wearing their gloves here :P
This is in my 2007 Expedition with the 6-speed auto transmission, which is the 6R75. In 2009, they changed to the 6R80 in the Expeditions (F150’s started with the 6R80 in 2009), which simply increased the amount of torque the transmission can handle (as seen at the input shaft), otherwise they’re the same. A quick Google image search of the 6R80 will show you the cap/nut is still there, although I haven’t actually put my hands on one of those yet to see if the dipstick is there. I would assume so, but you never know…
**UPDATE August 6, 2014**
A comment below asked about this working on the Mustangs, too. I did some quick research and found that 2011 & up Mustangs also got the 6R80 transmission six speed automatic transmission. It should work for you Mustang owners, too!
To add fluid, you can use one of the following (or both if you like).
thank you VERY much for this excellent write up! Again, I cant thank you enough especially for the pics too!
Excellent procedure. Thanks for this post.
Does this apply for 2013 mustang gt auto tranmission? In my manual it says auto dont have a dipstick, also in article states car need to be on level ground so no ramp? only lifts?
It should be for all 2011+ Mustangs, as the six speed auto in those is a 6R80, which would be the same as the one pictured. 2005-2010 Mustangs used a five speed auto, it’s the 5R55S, which is different.
As far as leveling, yes, it should be on a lift or jack stands. If you have it on ramps, the fluid will be parallel to level ground, which will throw the dispstick reading off.
Is that nut on pretty tight? I tried to loosen it but definitely do not want to break it off or strip it out, that would make for a bad day. Awesome description though!
I don’t recall it being overly tight, but I suppose it’s possible.
Our 2007 Expedition has 126,000 miles on it and We are not the first owner, So I’m not sure if the transmission fluid has ever been replaced. I called my local Ford service place just to see how much they would charge and they charge $179 for just a flush or $249 for “dropping pan and replacing filter” & I said not thanks. So now with that info I will do it myself from what I’ve read and learned from web sites like this and I usually do all our car maintenance myself anyway . But after I said I’d do the job myself the service person said that after a certain amount of miles the fluid should be left alone because changing it could cause problems. She didn’t give me that magic number of miles that changing fluid & filter would cause problems. Can anyone give me an idea of what milage the fluid should be left alone or does that millage number exist. Its hard for me to believe that I should just leave the fluid unchanged.
I was told the same thing about my transmission, Leave it alone. The problem is, mine is having a hard time deciding whether to down shift or not. It bucks until the speed or rpms are low enough. Then it shifts like normal.. I figure at least a filter change is in order. Any suggestions?
Gary,
She’s full of it. Check it and change if necessary. Ironically, I think Ford’s techs know less about their vehicles than virtually anyone else.
Even the best super synthetics tranny fluids needs changing at regular intervals. Especially with towing and off road usage. I’m not surprised that some dealer techs and advisors are following the ‘company’ line too closely.
I have a 2010 F-150 and did get burnt trying to get to the dipstick. ( I’m not as steady as I was when I was younger) Your write up is excellent and was very helpful. My tranny recently leaked a bit of fluid, some where from the back of it. I made an appointment with the dealer after he kept insisting they couldn’t suggest anything until they had it up on the hoist. Turns out this is a common problem that has been addressed with a tech bulletin. I’m sure I’ll have to mention it.
Again well done Luke!!!
This post was very helpful, but I got tired of trying to handle the dipstick with my gloves and dropping it half the time! I finally got my shade tree mind in gear and I cut 4 feet of 3/8 copper tubing, drilled out a 5/16 flat washer, and soldered it about 4 inches up the tubing. I then used the dipstick as a measuring tool and cut a ring in the tubing at the proper fill line.
I then cut off the excess. It only takes a little bending to put this rig into the hole seating it with the washer. I added a piece of rubber hose clamped to the top for a funnel coupling. It is much easier to fill the tranny from the top! I just went back under the truck periodically and raised the tubing until I was at the full mark. I have since bargain using a piece of 12 gauge THHN white electrical wire that I clamped in a vise for hash marks as a dipstick inside the tubing and now I can do the filling and checking from under the hood.
I only get burned once now when I put the cap back on!
I hope this helps someone as much as it did me!!
Thanks!!!!!!!!! From snowy Lake Tahoe
Ren, I love your solution to not having a dipstick! Then “rigging” one. I’d like to see pictures. But I do have a question, I have a 2009 Ford F-150XLT with a 5.4L it does have the Auto, but on the column I read PND321. Now, do I have a 4 speed ? Chitons says 4 autos require mercon v, the 6 auto uses LV. Am I right? Thanks. Anyone who knows for sure please let me know. Thanks.
Hey Craig,
I do know the 6-speed does require the LV, I have a few quarts left over from replacing my torque converter, I don’t recall what the 4-speed needs.
Regarding PRND321, that is the 6-speed. The 4-speed has PRND21 and both have a separate “O/D off” button. The “D” includes both Drive & Over Drive for both transmissions, as well as a 2nd Over Drive for the 6-speed. Over Drive off will leave it in the 1:1 gear (3rd on 4-speed, 4th on 6-speed) and not lockup the torque converter.
You can test this by turning off O/D, manually shifting through the gears to drive (4), then turning on O/D and counting the up shifts from there (2).
Hope that helps!
Luke
Great info!!!!
Hi all,
Nice write up. I was inspecting a 2007 Navi today to buy it and after 30 seconds looking at the engine compartment trying to find the trans. dip stick, i kind of figured it was gone on these models. I owned a 2003 Navi and it had a dip stick. I am a mechanical engineer and yes it is true out of experience that if your car transmission oil was never replaced and the car has a lot of miles on it ( i would say 100K+), is better not to change it, especially with ford based car. I fall in this trap my self about 10 years ago with crown victory that i owned. if you are insisting to change it, try mixing some heavier oil with it. the thing that is more important to know and have access to as a car owner is the ability to smell the transmission fluid. If it smells burnt, then your transmission is almost gone or gone already. I do not understand why ford decided to take that away. As a car buyer, i would want to know how the transmission oil smells before i buy a car. I can’t remove the dip stick from the transmission at the dealership.
I think ford knows the fact about replacing the oil on the transmission would kill the transmission quickly and by removing the dip stick, this act will be limited to them. I think they believe they can protect the users from damaging their own cars, but they for sure missed the point of inspection is a right for the consumer.
I don’t know that’s entirely true (changing trans fluid after 100k miles will kill the transmission). Chances are if the transmission burned up post-service, it’s because it was already on it’s way out the door. I have a 2007 Expedition (where this post was based) and the torque converter went out around 110k miles or so. I dropped the pan & serviced the transmission when changing the torque converter and have logged another nearly 50k miles since (knocks on wood :D), it still feels just as solid, even after pulling a good sized travel trailer around south Texas.
This is BS, I called the dealership in Jacksonville N.C. to see why I don’t have a dip stick and get this, The service manager told me it was a sealed system and the fluid need to be change through the trans line and they will check it with the machine, I said how do you change the transmission filter and he said it doesn’t have a filter, this is the kind of Idiots I am dealing with out here in redneckville !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We just bought a used 2007 Expedition. It started feeling a little funny when driving so my husband went to check the transmission fluid and of course couldn’t find the dipstick. We found this post and from there he was able to locate the dipstick. Problem? He broke the dipstick inside… Any suggestions on what to do?
Hey Pam,
Aside from dropping the pan and removing the dipstick, there’s not much that can be done. If you go to Ford, they have the dipstick, but you’ll likely need to have the parts clerk actually pull up the diagram and point to what you want, as they also believe these have no dipstick.
Leaving the old part in there isn’t that much of a concern, but if it’s driving funny, I’d be willing to bet the torque converter is going out and won’t properly lock up. This happened to mine, and is what sparked this post. Try turning O/D off and see if it behaves the same. Granted, it won’t go into 5th or 6th gear, but it also won’t try to lock up the toque converter. When it’s going out, you’ll notice something like a vibration happening on an interval (like one second on and one second off), and may also be able to notice a slight drop in RPM when you’re maintaining a cruising speed.
If this is the problem, Ford will probably want to replace the entire trans & torque converter. I bought a torque converter elsewhere and replaced it myself. Just make sure you get the proper trans fluid.
Thanks!
Luke
Luke,
Thanks so much for responding so quickly! My husband is in the process of dropping the pan now! And yes what you explained about your torque converter seems exactly like mine is doing. But I was wondering if that would cause the check engine light to come on? Mine is not on but I know somethings don’t trigger it. Also, my husband’s mechanical abilities are limited so we’d have to have it done by someone else, but don’t really have the cash to spare right now having just purchased the vehicle. So I was wondering what else can go wrong if it is driven like that until I can get it fixed?
No, I don’t believe the torque converter will cause a check engine light. As far as what else could go wrong, I’m not sure. I don’t know if it will heat up the trans fluid more, or if material coming off the lock-up clutches will contaminate the fluid further, but those are things to think about.
Depending on where you’re located, you may be able to find a rebuilt torque converter with warranty for as little as $130, but maybe call transmission shops and ask for a quote. My best guess is it’ll be anywhere from 4 to 8 hours of labor. I know it sucks, I’ve been there, but sometimes letting it go will cost you more in the long run.
I have a new to me 2009 Expedition limited 4wd. It has just turned 90K. The problem I am having is that at low speed traffic (15mph or less) stop and go, it has a hard down shift. When I turn the tow/haul mode on (O/D off), it shifts fine but it holds the lower gear longer. I recently traveled from East TN to the FL Keys and it was fine except for the traffic in Atlanta… Also, when I try to maintain a steady speed on inclines it feels like its is “pulsing”. I talked to the previous owner. He said it has done this off and on since he bought it new. He had it back to two different dealers, one being a friends and once they “reflashed” the tranny PCM (his words) and the other said it was normal (the friend). It is not worse or better. It is my wifes DD and We have put 16K on it since last Sept 2015. Have you heard of this or any suggestions?
Kenny – thanks for the idea of a DIY dipstick/filling port from the top of the tranny. Good to have some options if I can get my hands on a fluid pump.
Im thinking of dropping the pan and replacing the filter. Before I do that, Id like to pump out as much fluid as I can. Ive always opened a line to the cooler and had the tranny pump out the fluid on my other vehicles. Is anyone doing that for these trannies?
I just removed all but 4 bolts, two towards the front and two on the back corners. Then remove the two on the back, then slowly release the front ones to angle the pan and drain it. Pretty standard way, really, done this a handful of times and it works fine
TJ, I just saw this article and wanted to respond to your question. Although its a late response wanted to share my experience. I have a 2012 Expedition EL Limited 4WD and it has a separate atf cooler in front of radiator. The line coming out of the passenger side of the atf cooler is the pressure side and fluid will pump out of it from your transmission. After removing top underhood valence and front grill(it’s worth the trouble to have easy access) I attached a length of clear tubing(allows visualization of fluid) with a small hose gasket, started engine and pumped 4 qts at a time out then replaced with fresh fluid into the dipstick hole. Mark a five gallon bucket in quart increments so you can keep track of old fluid volume. The best sequence would be to pump out 3.5-4 qts, drop transmission pan that is now essentially empty, replace filter and clean magnet, replace pan, pour 3.5-4qts fresh fluid back into pan then continue pumping and replacing AT fluid until it comes out bright red(12-16 quarts). I had to stop and start engine so I didn’t run it dry. If you have a way to replace it as its pumped out that would be ideal but I don’t think a hand pump or pouring from a bottle is fast enough to keep up with transmission pump. Drive around a bit til operating temp and check your level via the above noted dipstick and add or subtract as needed to get to proper level. I’ve done this with my GMC pickup, Honda Accord and it’s the best way I’ve found to completely replace all old fluid with new at one time short of paying stealerships to do it with a machine. Good luck.
Luke, great post thank you! I have a 2007 Expy and have recently had the same symptoms as you indicating a possible Torque Converter Failure. I thought I would first drop the Pan and check the fluid and change it and the filter if there were no obvious signs of metal etc in there. Unfortunately the same thing happened to me as Pam – the dipstick broke off as I was removing it into the pan! I will be making my way to the ford dealer to try and get a new one, but while the car is laid up, I thought I would investigate changing the torque converter DIY. You said you did it – how easy was it? I’ve read other places that you have to drop the whole tranny – is that true? Thanks for any reply you can give!
Any advice on removing stuck cap/nut? I tried with some force and no luck. I don’t want to break it. Thanks in advance!
Robby
Update: I put a pipe through the wrench to extend it a bit and it loosened up easily. Not much force was needed thankfully. Of course plastic dipstick broke in 2 places after removing. Luckily it didn’t fall in the pan.
Symptoms involved really bad shudder at low rpm when going from 4th to 5th gear. Disabling overdrive would stop the shudder. I read old transmission fluid could be the cause or the spark plugs (not ready for that headache yet).
I siphoned out approx 5 quarts and replaced with new fluid. Couldn’t measure fluid since dipstick broke, but added as much as I took out. Took 3.5 while off and then added the other 1.5 when idling in park while hot. During test drive the rough shudder is definitely less and not as frequent as before. Hopefully it goes away over time. I will be doing the same process in a few hundred miles or next oil change to get more of the old fluid out, but dropping the pan this time to clean out the magnet.
Hey Robby!
Glad you were able to get the nut off. When you go to Ford and buy the dipstick, you’ll get some strange looks, as even those parts guys usually don’t know it exists. You may have to ask them to pull up the parts diagram.
Now, what you’re describing sounds like a failing torque convert, unfortunately. Disabling overdrive also disables TC lock up, which is typically where the shuddering happens. You might even try some of the Lucas Transmission Fix before going the TC route to see if that helps, but I honestly think you’re delaying the inevitable.
Thanks for the tip! I was able to find it on eBay for a few bucks. Should arrive today.
Any advice on replacing the torque converter? Never done one before. It is pretty straight forward?
Thanks again!
It’s a bit of an undertaking. You’ll have to pull the exhaust, drive shaft, cross-member, starter (three bolts, one on the top is hard to get to), flexplate bolts (there’s a rubber plug on the block that allows access to the bolts on the driver’s side of the motor, shifter linkage, transmission cooler lines, and finally bell housing bolts and lowering the transmission.
Before starting (a day or two before), add fluid to the new TC so the clutches can soak it up. You may have to turn it up on it’s side and “roll” it around to get the most amount of fluid in it, but make sure you can still hold the TC vertical without fluid coming out. That way when you install it into the transmission it doesn’t drip everywhere.
Before removing the driveshaft, drain the fluid from the transmission. I usually remove all but the corner bolts, then remove two at one end, slowly releasing tension on the other two to let the pan slowly drain the fluid. You could start there before doing anything and validate you have the correct filter, install the new filter, re-install the pan and continue along.
My service garage tells me that their fluid is conpatible with the LV fluid. Is that acceptable or does it need to be LV fluid exactly?
Funny story: When I first bought my 2009 EL in 2014, I looked around under the hood for a dipstick. Not finding one, I stopped by the Ford dealer and pulled into the service dept. I asked them if they would check my transmission fluid level. They looked around under the hood for a dipstick. They scratched their heads and looked at each other. Then they tried to sell me a flush job for $200+. I declined and went on my way. Later, I googled and found out about the little dipstick.
wonder if you can attach a dip stick tube to the threads and run it up for under hood reach?
I have a 2008 Expy EL that occasionally shudders when pulling a trailer. After doing some research I think it appears to be a problem with the TC. If I wanted to add some “shudder fixx” would I add it through the dipstick whole you described above?
Great article.. I have a 2007 Expedition with 195k mikes. Getting torque shudder and really disappointed where this stick is located!!
Recommendation is perform a transmission flush but need a vacuum pump to suck fluid out..the is also a joke! Ford wants $250 for fluid and 15minutes of work!!
Where did you find the pump and tube to add fluid?
Thank you very much for the information. I literally crawled into the engine compartment and was pissed because as you well know… I couldn’t find it. Now I know why. Not one of Ford’s better ideas! Very well documented!!!
Hii
Its very helpful info
However i would like to know if i can add fluid to my gearbox from there ?
And if it’s possible to drain the old fluid and replace it with a new one
Thank you
What a great article! Just did not make sense when Owner’s Manual says this vehicle has no dipstick. Have some seepage but no loose bolts, just wanted to check the fluid level since “spots on driveway” are hard to measure. Can do that now without taking it to dealer, which is the worst thing one can ever do (my opinion.)
Thanks,
Joe
BTW: Will the check engine light come on if fluid level is low?
THANK YOU! I too ran into the same bizarre comments via Google and the manual. No dipstick, dealer only service, etc. Why I didn’t think to check for myself is beyond me. In this day and age of the Weather Channel app, I all too often check the weather online before ever bothering to look out the window. Thanks again my friend.
My dipstick just keeps spinning. How can I get it out?
I’ve looked high and low on good up Google and still can’t find an exact answer. How many quarts of transmission fluid do I need to do on my 07 Expedition Eddie Bauer? I’m doing a fluid and filter change. With good up Google I’ve read all kinds of quantities from 5 to 15 quarts. Can you give me the correct amount?
Hey man quick question I tried to check my transmission fluid I got a 2009 F150 with a 4-6 in it it’s a 6r80 tranny I can’t crack the nut that holds the dipstick I had a breaker bar on it and couldn’t crack it I’ve sprayed it with PB Blaster I think it was it’s like an orange oil any ideas I’m worried about breaking either the nut or breaking the housing to the tranny thanks man
How can I know which transmission my 2011 F150 has? I understand that there are a couple of options and I intend to add a firewall mounted, after market dipstick and flexible tube. When ordering, I want to make certain I choose the right option.